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Topic: Skirmisher

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Skirmisher
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That class is anything but balanced, even with medium BAB. :p



-- Edited by Tomekk on Friday 16th of November 2012 05:41:34 PM

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A custom class I had in mind.  The Skirmisher is a lightly armored and well trained warrior, delivering terrible wounds to unobservant foes on the battlefield.  Thoughts?  Comments? Monkeys?

 

Hit Die: d8

Proficiencies: All simple and martial weapons, light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Skill Points: 4/level

Class skills: Bluff, Craft Alchemy, Craft Armor, Craft Weapon, Craft Trap, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Parry, Spot, Survival, Tumble.

Base Attack Bonus: High

Saving Throws:  high - Fort, Reflex            low - Will

CLASS PROGRESSION

Level          Feature Gained

1                Bleeding Wound 1/round, Fast Movement (as barbarian)

2                Uncanny Dodge

3                Bonus Feat (fighter)

5               Bleeding Wound 2/round

6                Evasion

7               Bonus Feat (as fighter)

9               Bleeding Wound 3/round

11              Bonus Feat (as fighter)

13              Bleeding Wound 4/round

15              Bonus Feat (as fighter)

17              Bleeding Wound 5/round

19              Bonus Feat (as fighter)

21             Bleeding Wound 6/round

23              Bonus Feat (epic)

25              Bleeding Wound 7/round

27              Bonus Feat (epic)

29              Bleeding Wound 8/round

30               Bonus Feat (epic) , Bleeding Wound 10/round

 

Bleeding Wound: As Invisible Blade ability but with different progression.

At 1st level, when an Invisible Blade hits with a successful sneak attack, he inflicts a bleeding wound that deals 2 points of damage per round for 3 rounds. This damage stacks with previous damage caused by a Bleeding Wound attack. He must be either unarmored or wielding only light weapons in order to inflict a Bleeding Wound. At 3rd level, the damage increases to 4 per round, and at 5th level, it increases to 6 points per round. Each level of Bleeding Wound counts as one die of sneak attack damage for purposes of class and feat prerequisites.

Regardless of the class prerequisites, an Invisible Blade can use any light weapon to cause a bleeding wound (i.e. a handaxe or shortsword can be used, but not a rapier).

 

Bonus Feats: Gains bonus feat from the fighter list through non-epic levels. Gains bonus epic feats at epic levels.

 



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http://nwn2customcontent.wikidot.com/scout

That's nearly the same as what you want. :p

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Honestly, it's more powerful than what I was proposing. I also much prefer bleeding wounds to sneak attack for the concept.

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Although, the Scout only has medium BAB, which I guess is what balances it?

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Well, since you asked, your skirmisher is a bit over-powered there. He has a bunch of rogue advantages as well as the high BAB and fighter feat progression, and two high saves, and slightly higher skill points. I'd suggest getting rid of the extra feats, at least, if you want to keep it on par with the other base classes.

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Well the idea was to create a character that was similar to a Fighter/Rogue, but with a crappier kind of sneak attack. I think it's powerful in comparison to a Fighter, but not really in comparison to a Rogue. The pure fighter is just a very sad class overall. If anything, I'd say that the class is on par with a well built Ranger. If you made a Ranger/Invisible blade, you'd probably end up with a much better character overall.

Also, the point was to make a character that only gets good in the long run. There isn't anything here that is really worth dipping into for only a couple of levels.

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Fighter isn't supposed to be a pure class... if you take no PrCs or multiclasses with it, you're doing something horribly wrong. 3.5ed Cleric also has no real class feature besides his Caster Level and Turn Undead, so there's no reason to keep it pure with the amount of excellent PrCs they have.

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If it's a class, it should be something that is meant to be stand alone. PrC's should only exist for flavor, not as a necessary add-on to make other classes function! Multi-class should also be for flavor, not functionality. I'm well aware that it doesn't actually work out that way, in 3rd edition (or 3.5), but I honestly think it should. But, if we want to talk about overall class intention and balance, we should probably make another thread for that.

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Back to the original topic . . .

A well built ranger is very powerful, you're right. But Rangers are likewise fighters with special class features, except they loose the extra feats (or have them diminished and highly limited, depending on how you look at it) in exchange for the special class features.

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When you're dealing with high hp creatures and DR, does the bleeding stacking actually give you that much advantage? Combat is pretty quick, after all. It seems like the highlight of this class is making bleeding / wounding effects actually worthwhile.

And nooo, don't get rid of uncanny dodge and evasion, they make the class interesting and special! . . well, on top of the bleeding effect. Really, they're kinda standard for roguish fighters.



-- Edited by MimiFearthegn on Monday 19th of November 2012 02:56:46 PM

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Well, I stand by what I put on paper. I honestly think it stacks up fairly well against a pure rouge, ranger or paladin, while being better than a pure fighter or barbarian. I don't really think that up to 5 bonus non-epic feats overpower it significantly. I still consider it inferior to most caster classes.

It would be worth noting that somehow this class should not be able to stack with Invisible Blade - that would be a bit too much Bleeding Wound damage.

In other words, I think it strikes a nice median, which is what I was trying to go for.

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I would consider removing Uncanny Dodge or Evasion, but not both from the class. And also change the first bonus feat to Improved Initiative or Alertness.

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Bleeding already stacks with every successful hit, you know...

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Bleeding does stack with every hit, but then again, 15d6 sneak attack vs 10 bleed damage...

Well, could say on average that every sneak attack hit deals an extra 45 damage as opposed to each hit dealing an extra 10 damage, but for 3 rounds. Overall a full Rogue will do a heck of a lot more damage with sneak attacks. Of course, the Skirmisher would hit more, so, it's not quite as clear cut there. This is of course a level 30 comparison of each class.

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And actually, I have no idea how the game treats bleed damage. I would think DR would overcome it, but i'm not sure.


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Important question if you're intending on making this class: are there feats getting you up to Bleeding 10?

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No, I mean, I wouldn't think so. I don't know how mechanically the Invisible Blade works. This is just in the idea/suggestion phase right now. I just liked the bleed mechanic and thought it would be neat if there were a class that used it as one of it's primary abilities. You could certainly make almost this exact same character, but better, if you were a combination of rogue/fighter/invisible blade/weapon master.

Sometimes I wish there were only 3 classes. Rogue/Warrior/Caster. I count Caster as one class, because despite what your magic origin is (divine, arcane, psionic, shamanic, chi, etc) I think of magic as being magic with your origin just providing flavor. Sorry, getting off topic again.

I'm guessing that the Bleeding Wound class feature is probably controlled by the engine by some sort of feat though.

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Well unfortunately, it looks like bleeding only goes up to 6 damage/rnd, increasing from 2 to 4 to 6, so unless you want to recreate the mechanic with scripting (which would be really cool, certainly), there's that to consider. I think its a hardcoded set of feats otherwise.

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Ah, yes, well, depending on how deep I get into this, I'm afraid the Skirmisher will have to be a dream for now.

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coyotesage wrote:

And actually, I have no idea how the game treats bleed damage. I would think DR would overcome it, but i'm not sure.


 No, bleeding bypasses all DR, as the initial wound is already done - once past the defenses, it's there.

I quite like the concept of Skirmisher, won't need to remain a dream only.



-- Edited by anikaiful on Wednesday 21st of November 2012 10:10:40 PM

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I don't see anything about the class that couldn't be made verbatim as it is listed up above. The bleeding can be scripted and tagged to the feat if need be.

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